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Thread: If there was a federation of planets

  1. #1
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    If there was a federation of planets

    I know it's silly to think that you can compare this world to a star trek world, but bare with me.

    If we were just another intelligent species out there and we at one point met them with advances in technology, what do you think would happen?

    Well, when the new world was discovered the Europeans just took everything with force... humans aren't a peaceful people. We may wage war... maybe not initially though.

    Would we have a world anthem? Would we create another branch government that looks into the interests of the planet as a whole?

    Personally, I think another intelligent species is somewhere out there. I know I wont see one in my lifetime, but I have no doubts that one day we'll be very good space travelers. There is still so much we don't know what the mysteries of physics hold. It's barely been 100 years since the theory of relativity. Maybe in a few hundred years a new Einstein will come by and tie up some loose ends.

    What are your thoughts? What would Earth be like if there were other species?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Klotz's Avatar
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    It's barely been 100 years since the theory of relativity.
    And in those 103 years relativity has stood the test against every experiment that's been performed. What loose ends are you talking about? The cosmological constant?



    It would be really cool to meet another civilization. Hopefully it would help us achieve peace on Earth to realize that we're not alone. Maybe in terms of global politics, but it wouldn't stop janjaweed from killing people in Africa or whatever.

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    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    They probably all do the same stupid **** we do. And, we're probably lucky we haven't had any encounters of merit, yet. Otherwise, we'd all be warring.

    Actually, that would probably bring unity to Earth.
    Last edited by Patz; 03-30-2008 at 12:10 PM.
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    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    There is no way that we would go to war with another civilization if we met. We wouldn't need their resources, and we definitely wouldn't just want to wipe out another existence for no reason.

    I'm sure it would work in both ways.


    I don't know how much communication will actually transpire between us and another life form, though. I think that the speed of light really is a maximum, and it seems like there's nobody remotely close to us that has at least equal technology at this time. The idea of sending a group of exchange students over seems implausible (for the next few thousand years, anyway).

  5. #5
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klotz View Post
    And in those 103 years relativity has stood the test against every experiment that's been performed. What loose ends are you talking about? The cosmological constant?



    It would be really cool to meet another civilization. Hopefully it would help us achieve peace on Earth to realize that we're not alone. Maybe in terms of global politics, but it wouldn't stop janjaweed from killing people in Africa or whatever.
    The discrepancy that exists general relativity and quantum mechanics. We also still don't know why particles can act like waves sometimes and particles at others.

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    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    The discrepancy that exists general relativity and quantum mechanics. We also still don't know why particles can act like waves sometimes and particles at others.
    I don't think we're ever going to have what I call a "Grand Unified Theory," for lack of a better term.
    Last edited by KingJustin; 03-30-2008 at 12:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingJustin View Post
    There is no way that we would go to war with another civilization if we met. We wouldn't need their resources, and we definitely wouldn't just want to wipe out another existence for no reason.

    I'm sure it would work in both ways.

    Not if we find Oil.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    We don't know a lot of things about science, but scientists sure like to pretend they do know. Personally because of my faith, and scientific beliefs I don't think there are any other life forms out there besides us. I do think however agree that we probably will be very good at space travel in the future. What better reason to blow trilions more dollars than learn to travel to other universes for no reason other than because we can.
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    I'm a bit of a pessimist and feel like any civilisation with technology advanced enough to meet us will probably have managed to blow their whole planet up within a couple hundred-thousand years of discovering said technology.

    So while there could be many alien civilisations, chances are they either are more primitive than us or have already killed themselves off.

  10. #10
    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bupp View Post
    I'm a bit of a pessimist and feel like any civilisation with technology advanced enough to meet us will probably have managed to blow their whole planet up within a couple hundred-thousand years of discovering said technology.

    So while there could be many alien civilisations, chances are they either are more primitive than us or have already killed themselves off.
    This is a good, often raised point. I think, however, that there's a possibility that many of the emotions that lead to this are uniquely human. I don't think that jealousy, for instance, elicits a strong survival advantage.

  11. #11
    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingJustin View Post
    There is no way that we would go to war with another civilization if we met. We wouldn't need their resources, and we definitely wouldn't just want to wipe out another existence for no reason.

    I'm sure it would work in both ways.

    Are you serious? Do you watch the news?

    There are people on this Earth with SUCH ego and SUCH a desire to conquer (in many forms and facets of life) that they would first barter, then demand, then attempt to TAKE anything and everything they deemed fit on another planet.

    Oil, alternate fuels, woods, gases, minerals, metals, species...and ESPECIALLY anything different and/or better than what's on Earth.
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    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackboard View Post
    Not if we find Oil.
    Agreed.

  13. #13
    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    And...good God...if personal space travel gets going before it gets regulated....we're ****ed.
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  14. #14
    Banned KingJustin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrelwooddowd View Post
    Are you serious? Do you watch the news?

    There are people on this Earth with SUCH ego and SUCH a desire to conquer (in many forms and facets of life) that they would first barter, then demand, then attempt to TAKE anything and everything they deemed fit on another planet.

    Oil, alternate fuels, woods, gases, minerals, metals, species...and ESPECIALLY anything different and/or better than what's on Earth.
    This is just erroneous. When archaeologists make new discoveries, for example, these things are very carefully preserved, even if we can gain something from them. A new, independent civilization would be considered absolutely priceless.

    There probably are some people on Earth that would like to destroy other civilizations, but only the heads of government in the superpowers (or UN, or whatever) would be acting.

    Besides, the idea of transporting material thousands of light years, after needing to fight off aliens, is crazy. We would just not benefit to any great degree.


    As pessimistic as you all are about humans, there is absolutely no way we would destroy an alien civilization.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Klotz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    The discrepancy that exists general relativity and quantum mechanics. We also still don't know why particles can act like waves sometimes and particles at others.
    It's all in the math.
    But even if we discover how gravity works at quantum scales, it still won't help us go faster than light.

  16. #16
    mind/body zen's Avatar
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    any reasonably intelligent alien would first deduce by observation, then prove with testing and experimentation, that the human race is selfish and dangerous. Both selfish as individuals, primarily, and also selfish in a social (mob) group-centric way.

    The odd thing about selfish creatures is that they often learn to 'negotiate' with their environment and with those they deal with. By this, I mean, that they attempt to maintain a equitable balance with the influences around them. But in the end, human beings are still selfish, and it is because of this, they often appear to be conscientious and respectful of others.

    To those of us who are immersed in society and social contact with other human beings every day, we lose sight of the overall blatancy of our selfish behavior. The 'not seeing the forest from the amidst the trees' effect causes us get caught up in the subtle nuance of interaction such that we really don't recognize how blatantly evil (a subjective term that would be perscribed for wanton selfish behavior) humans are.

    It is because of that, I believe that a race or culture of superior intelligence and resources would probably, at best, try to contain us, and perhaps even not allow us to realize that they are doing so, if we have not discovered them likewise.
    At worst, upon discovery of us, I believe they would simply deem it necessary to exterminate us as a threat.

    Of course, that all really depends on the type of intelligence (not just level) that we are dealing with here. There are a lot of different modus that one can operate under. The purely logical or analytical scientific types? The benevolent or even emotional types? Advance spiritualists? Hyper-aggressive cultures? Even perhaps something similar to us. The self-centric types with a portents toward 'life and let live' balance.
    Last edited by zen; 03-30-2008 at 01:27 PM.
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    Zen, i sonds like you've read the enders saga books by orson scott.

  18. #18
    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingJustin View Post
    This is just erroneous. When archaeologists make new discoveries, for example, these things are very carefully preserved, even if we can gain something from them. A new, independent civilization would be considered absolutely priceless.

    There probably are some people on Earth that would like to destroy other civilizations, but only the heads of government in the superpowers (or UN, or whatever) would be acting.

    Besides, the idea of transporting material thousands of light years, after needing to fight off aliens, is crazy. We would just not benefit to any great degree.


    As pessimistic as you all are about humans, there is absolutely no way we would destroy an alien civilization.
    I respectfully disagree.

    And, this would obviously be years down the road. Maybe centuries. We aren't far-enough advanced to be shuttling cargo ships and troops all over the galaxy, for sure.

    And, I'm realistic..not pessimistic. I'm not talking about hippie archaeologists who are dealing with some old dinosaur bones, or remnants of of an ancient city. And, I'm not talking about society as whole. I'm talking about the powers that be. Humanity has proven again and again that it can't get along. We war over everything. We disagree over everything. That's just how it is. It happens on every level, from in our homes to between our countries.

    I also don't mean that we'd necessarily destroy another civilization. Maybe we'd just bully it, and take what we want. Maybe they'd be too weak to stop us. Don't, for one second, think the asshats that make the decisions in this world would sit idly by while marketable goods wasted away on another planet, and were easily attainable. They'd barter, they'd ask, they'd take...

    Or, maybe, we'd hit a hornet's nest, and we would be the ones fighting to keep what we have.
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  19. #19
    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    I hadn't read that post yet, zen. I like it. There's a lot of truth there.
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  20. #20
    mind/body zen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bupp View Post
    Zen, i sonds like you've read the enders saga books by orson scott.
    I don't read fiction.
    Seriously. Aside from the books I was required to read in school, the only full works of fiction that I read in my life can be counted on one hand.
    The odd thing about that is that I once wanted to write sci-fi.
    I gave up that idea long ago. How can anyone who doesn't enjoy reading fiction ever presume that he can write it?
    Last edited by zen; 03-30-2008 at 02:11 PM.
    'In order to alter the inertial mass of weights, you must become one with them, like a machine, the totality of your motion is as one'

  21. #21
    mrelwooddowd Patz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zen View Post
    I don't read fiction.
    Seriously. Aside from the books I was required to read in school, the only full works of fiction that I read in my life can be counted on one hand.
    The odd thing about that is that I once wanted to write sci-fi.
    I gave up that idea long ago. How can anyone who doesn't enjoy reading fiction ever presume that he can write it?
    Orson Scott Card is pretty interesting. My brother was interning for a video game company a few years ago, and they were working on a game based on his Alvin Maker tales. I think my brother actually got to meet him. Anyway, he decided to read all the books to help him with his designs and such for the game, and he absolutely loved them. He got my parents reading them, and they both read the whole series. My dad isn't much of a reader, but he was all up in those. I read the first one myself, and it was pretty good.

    What's interesting about those is, they're historical fiction, but a lot real people are in very different roles. It's an interesting concept, and it works really well. I haven't read any of Ender's Game, though.
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    Crrrrrrrrrrest!!!!! mikey4402's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackboard View Post
    Not if we find Oil.
    I would think we would of moved on from oil by the time we developed intergalactic travil.
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  23. #23
    mind/body zen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikey4402 View Post
    I would think we would of moved on from oil by the time we developed intergalactic travil.
    Petroleum fuels are crude but cheap, which is why they are used for nearly everything with a mundane purpose.
    In space, petroleum fuels have too much mass and volume to be useful. Nuclear is the way to go there, just as it is for submarines.
    'In order to alter the inertial mass of weights, you must become one with them, like a machine, the totality of your motion is as one'

  24. #24
    Crrrrrrrrrrest!!!!! mikey4402's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zen View Post
    Petroleum fuels are crude but cheap, which is why they are used for nearly everything with a mundane purpose.
    In space, petroleum fuels have too much mass and volume to be useful. Nuclear is the way to go there, just as it is for submarines.
    Im aware of that. Im saying im sure we wont be dependent on petroleum like we are today by the time we can travel to other worlds.

    There is plenty of oil on this planet.
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  25. #25
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    I think we will meet a alien race, how it goes after that is entirely up to the poeple who make the decisiosn.
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