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Thread: I really need opinions...from erbody!

  1. #1
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    I really need opinions...from erbody!

    This is not just another routine thread. I am interested in talking about how to make this work and maybe making an interesting split that could gain benefit from two very different worlds of lifting.

    So, I'm bored here with some broken fingers. I like to think and since I can't lift I am thinking about lifting. I was reading around on various boards and got to thinking about conjugate periodization, like one does, and was wondering how to incorporate that with Oly movements. How do these samples look? I would really like to create a sweet split philosophy... so please, humor an injured lustful lifter!


    M/W/F
    Snatch
    ME Squat
    DE DL
    Pulling Movement

    Clean & Jerk
    ME DL
    DE Bench
    Hamstring Movement

    Clean Variation
    ME Bench
    DE Squat
    Snatch Variation



    ------


    M/T/H/F
    Snatch Variation
    ME Squat
    Hamstring Movement
    DE Bench Press

    Snatch
    ME Bench Press
    DE DL
    Quad Movement

    Clean Variation
    ME DL
    Vertical Pulling
    Tricep or Horizontal Pushing Movement

    Clean and Jerk
    DE Squat
    OH Pushing Movement
    Horizontal Pulling Movement
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 08-10-2008 at 09:39 PM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  2. #2
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    It seems like a lot of work, but give it a try and see how it does for you. I would probably do the Oly stuff after the main movement, since you want to be fresh when you are trying to work your technique on main lifts.

    Personally, I only like to do Oly stuff on a bench day since I feel it transfers best to benching (big power pressing movement, lots of leg drive, shoulder and upper back work, etc)

    The other thing you could think about is to drop a DE day and make it an Oly day instead. That depends on how comfortable you are with losing a DE day. For me, I don't do much DE squatting anymore, but I absolutely need the speed bench. But that's just what works for me.

    Stats: Age: 34 Weight: 205 Height: 5'6"
    Gym PRs: Squat:635 Bench:560 Deadlift:495
    Meet PRs: Squat:575 Bench:525 Deadlift:510 Total: 1605@220

  3. #3
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Cool, I like your ideas. I agree about the volume but not really about movement order- but I guess it depends on priority. I find I respond well to DE Squats- so there they are but I am not so much making this for myself as a a split as I am just brain storming about the possibilities of combining conj periodization and OLY lifts. I, myself, would not do DE or ME Bench rather just RE bench since I don't compete. But like I said I am just looking for good theoretical conversation about how possible this is! This might simply not work for all of the big 3 rather focus on Squat and DL. On the other hand the volume is not out of this world. BGB I believe has similar amounts of volume as well as the WBB routines etc...

    Possible Movement Inclusions:

    -Vertical Push
    -Vertical Pull
    -Horizontal Push OR ME/DE Bench
    -Horizontal Pull
    -ME/DE Squat
    -ME/DE DL (could switch these week to week)
    -Hamstring Supporting Movement
    -Quad Supporting Movement
    -CnJ + 1 Variation
    -Snatch + 1 Variation

    It seems possible to mix these and although I have not done it yet it looks like it might work well for those who not only want good looking numbers (that is if they respond to conjugate methods) but also the athletes and those looking for that CNS speed and full body muscle team work.


    thanks!
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 08-11-2008 at 08:09 AM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  4. #4
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    It's always good to see people thinking.

    You might try looking up Travis Mash on Myspace. I believe he was doing something similar to what you're trying to accomplish.

    Stats: Age: 34 Weight: 205 Height: 5'6"
    Gym PRs: Squat:635 Bench:560 Deadlift:495
    Meet PRs: Squat:575 Bench:525 Deadlift:510 Total: 1605@220

  5. #5
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drew View Post
    It's always good to see people thinking.

    You might try looking up Travis Mash on Myspace. I believe he was doing something similar to what you're trying to accomplish.
    Cool, thanks Drew!
    Sarvamangalam!

  6. #6
    Gaglione Strength Chris Rodgers's Avatar
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    I am not very familiar with OLY lifts and training a loading. I do know that you need to practice them often. In the 4 day split, why not work the OLY lift(s) each day, then have a typical WS split on those days. IE: 2 Bench days and 2 Sq/DL days instead of splitting them into 4 sessions. Have one DE SQ/DL and one ME. Then do the same for bench on separate days. Just a thought.
    Best Meet Lifts(Raw w/wraps):
    @165- 435 SQ 270 BE 560 DL.....1255 total
    @181- 535 SQ 300 BE 570 DL.....1400 total
    Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
    @148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
    @165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
    @181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
    Best Gym Lifts(Raw w/wraps)
    545 SQ 305 BE 585 DL

  7. #7
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    Cool, thanks Drew!
    Drew is a super genius!


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  8. #8
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    thanks guys- chris, thats a great idea. ill see what i can organize using your premise.
    Sarvamangalam!

  9. #9
    The Project KarstenDD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vdizenzo View Post
    Drew is a super genius!
    Thats not a nice thing to say. Getting his hopes up and everything. Even if he is right.
    Roll Tide.

  10. #10
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    Zen - I don't like all the pulling. You might want to do some thing like this:

    Mon
    Olympic Lift
    ME Squat (but not a true ME)
    Hamstrings/Low BAck
    Abs

    Wed
    Olympic Lift
    ME Bench
    Lats
    Rows
    Tirceps

    Fri
    Olympic Lift
    DE Squat
    Hamstrings/Low Back
    Abs

    Mon
    Olympic Lift
    DE Bench
    Military Press
    Lats
    Triceps

    And then repeat the cycle. Basically, one week you'll be doing 2 Lower Body workouts and the next week you'll do 2 Upper Body workouts. Each workout, you can train the Olympic lift. You can also throw some biceps work in there if you want to.

    I would do the Olympic Lifts 1st. The point of Olympic Lifting is to be very fast and explosive. There is no way you'll be fast and explosive after ME work. And, if you do speed work properly, you'll be spent after that, as well.

    During the weeks where you're only performing one workout (Upper or Lower) I would do Deadlifts and Squats on that day. I would also make those workouts ME, not DE. Do the ME and DE workouts when you have 2 upper/lower workouts in the same week. I don't think speed work is that important. It's easy to move light weights. I do think it's more important if you lift raw, but still not that important. I think you'll get more out of ME work. Make sense?

    I would do Heavy Overhead work instead of DE Bench, but that's just me.

    Just some ideas for you.
    Last edited by RhodeHouse; 08-13-2008 at 08:15 PM.

  11. #11
    SFW! drew's Avatar
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    Just do whatever Matt Rhodes says. Rhodes is better than me at everything, including arts and crafts and the guitar. I have no friends.

    Stats: Age: 34 Weight: 205 Height: 5'6"
    Gym PRs: Squat:635 Bench:560 Deadlift:495
    Meet PRs: Squat:575 Bench:525 Deadlift:510 Total: 1605@220

  12. #12
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    I like that setup Rhodes. What kind of rep and weight ranges would you be using for the oly stuff?

  13. #13
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Zen - I don't like all the pulling. You might want to do some thing like this:

    Mon
    Olympic Lift
    ME Squat (but not a true ME)
    Hamstrings/Low BAck
    Abs

    Wed
    Olympic Lift
    ME Bench
    Lats
    Rows
    Tirceps

    Fri
    Olympic Lift
    DE Squat
    Hamstrings/Low Back
    Abs

    Mon
    Olympic Lift
    DE Bench
    Military Press
    Lats
    Triceps

    And then repeat the cycle. Basically, one week you'll be doing 2 Lower Body workouts and the next week you'll do 2 Upper Body workouts. Each workout, you can train the Olympic lift. You can also throw some biceps work in there if you want to.

    I would do the Olympic Lifts 1st. The point of Olympic Lifting is to be very fast and explosive. There is no way you'll be fast and explosive after ME work. And, if you do speed work properly, you'll be spent after that, as well.

    During the weeks where you're only performing one workout (Upper or Lower) I would do Deadlifts and Squats on that day. I would also make those workouts ME, not DE. Do the ME and DE workouts when you have 2 upper/lower workouts in the same week. I don't think speed work is that important. It's easy to move light weights. I do think it's more important if you lift raw, but still not that important. I think you'll get more out of ME work. Make sense?

    I would do Heavy Overhead work instead of DE Bench, but that's just me.

    Just some ideas for you.
    Wow, thats a badass looking split and yea there was a good amount of unbalanced pulling there. THANKS!!

    DO you mean pulling off of the ground? I think that is balanced with the squatting. Also that helps me tons in Rugby.

    RST: Various ranges- for the actual lifts themselves I will work to a heavy 1-2 and the variations will be strict 5x5 (or something low like that.. but not much lower)
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 08-14-2008 at 09:37 AM.
    Sarvamangalam!

  14. #14
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    RhodeHouse, here is one I was thinking about for myself once I can start lifting again. Im not really looking for a conjugate split just somethin that works for me. Opinions?

    Monday:
    Snatch- 5x5-1
    ME/ RE Squat- 5x5-1 (every other week)
    ** ?? If ME Squat then do Breathing Squats??
    Row- 5x5
    Flat Press- 5x5

    Wednesday:
    Power Clean- 5x3
    RE/ME DL 5x5-1 (every other week)
    Snatch High Pull- 5x5
    **?? if ME DL then DE Squat
    Push Press v Overhead Press 5x5 (every other week)

    Friday:
    Clean and Jerk- 5x5-1
    Front v Overhead Squat- 5x5 (every other week)
    Stiff Legged Deadlift- 5x5
    Kipping Pull-ups 3x Failure v Weighted Pull-ups- 5x5 (every other week)


    Was thinking about adding either DE pr Breathing Squats in there smewhere- maybe not weekly though. I know it still looks like a lot of pulling but these are the basic movements I want.

    This is all I want: 2 Hams, 2 quads, vertical and horizontal push and pull, olymovements + 1 variation of each. OPTIONS added were a set of 20 rep squats on the week and day of ME squat AND/OR putting DE squats on Wed when I will not be RE DL but rather ME DL. This is to keep volume lower per week. What I mean is week 1 will have ME Squat, RE DL and 20 rep squats while WEEK 2 will have RE squat, ME dl, and DE squats.

    Im really not trying to be difficult and not take advice. The 1st post was a general one and after thinking about what I need/want came up with this.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 08-14-2008 at 10:02 AM.
    Sarvamangalam!

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    The only thing I would do different is do the ME DL on the 3rd day not the 2nd day. This gives your lower body a little more rest from the really taxinf squats and pulls.

  16. #16
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    good idear
    Sarvamangalam!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSpikeyThing View Post
    I like that setup Rhodes. What kind of rep and weight ranges would you be using for the oly stuff?
    I don't know much about Olympic Lifting, but I remember doing 3-5 reps in college. I know that Prilepin's chart is made for Olympic lifting. He talks about speed work not being performed proper ly after 3-4 reps. The CNS just can't fire at it's best for very many reps. That's why Louie has his guys to De squats with doubles and benches with triples. You just can't produce maximal force for much more than 3 reps. And, I do know that Olympic lifting is all about maximal force production. So, I'm guessing that you could use set and rep schemes similar to Westside's Speed days. I would use different set/rep schemes all the time. Maybe 2-3 week waves?

    Again, I don't know a whole hell of a lot about Olympic lifting, just some of the very basics. You might want to PM Fuzzy or Sensei. They're really good with the Olympic stuff.

  18. #18
    SchModerator ZenMonkey's Avatar
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    I asked fuzz about this split and he seemed to like it.

    Snatch, Squat, Row, Bench

    Power Clean, Snatch High pull, DL, push press

    CnJ, front or OH squat, sldl, kipping pullups


    Id just be adding 1 movement per week with breathing squats once and DE squat on week 2
    Sarvamangalam!

  19. #19
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    Zen,

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