Give me an example of a post where I stated genetics trumps hard work and a good diet. You're taking what I said out of context, very clever. Like I said, genetics isn't the major factor, but you can't deny it does play a role.
I have awesome genetics. My no butt was built to squat.
Why talk about something no one knows anything about?
For genetic predisposition, All you can do is state anecdotal evidence, i.e. "I knew this guy who never worked very hard and made it to the top" or "I knew this guy who had a bum leg and was too short but still made it to the top." besides the fact that this shows its possible to overcome the odds with hard work, this is meaningless. We'll never know if it was possible for this guy, or that guy, or me or you to work hard and overcome their "bad" genetics. Heck, if you REALLY wanted to, you could make the argument that some people are even genetically predisposed to working hard or having a good mindset, so even those with crappy bodies may have a great genetically predisposed mind to work hard. I personally don't know much about biology, but I'm sure there's SOME research out there supporting this (hell, time magazine ran an article on a genetic link to spirituality--why not work ethic?)
Yes, there is some genetic limit to everyone's ability to benchpress, run, deadlift, play football etc. In some sports we're already starting to see it--100m dash times can only go down so far. The point is, I don't know my limit, so I need to stop making excuses and just work harder. Don't make assumptions about something you don't know. The converse of this is, and what I think a lot of other people are missing, is others shouldn't make claims about your genetic limit either--don't tell me that I can work my ass off and become a pro football player or a track star or squat 1200 lbs. I think its awesome that this guy or that guy overcame some genetic predisposition to do something great, but you can't apply the same thing to me or everyone else. You'd be making an assumption about my genetic limit, something you don't know either.
so its best just not to bring it up, for those making the excuses ("I can't! I have bad genetics!") and those criticizing the excuse makers("ARRGH! I overcame bad genetics so you need to stop being such a pussy!").
whatever. This is really just me procrastinating... I have marx paper I need to finish writing O__o
Stats: 11/15/07-First-meet--2nd Meet----3rd meet
Max Bench: 255---220-----------280------300
Max Squat: 405----395----------440------460
CHINUPS - Bodyweight + 135, x1, dead hang. Still working on the one arm chinup.
[QUOTE=KarstenDD;2036476]Well obviously I can't. However, if you work hard enough, then you can overcome genetics.
I dont believe this is true in all cases. I guess it also depends on what you consider overcome genetics, If you mean put 100 pounds on your lifts then yes i thing just about anyone can do that, if you mean put 300 lbs on your lifts then its not going to happen for a lot of people no matter how hard they work.
But to the rest of your post saying no one knows what our genetics are, i do agree with that. Even more evidence you can dismiss them as why someone isn't succeeding. Maybe you are genetically weak but have genetically good response to lifting, or you have genetically good limbs, or you have genetically good muscle fibers, or a million other things. You can always work harder.
Take a look, for example, at professional baseball player. Why is it that there are guys who never make it to the major league yet they dedicate their lives to it? You can't overcome someone who is genetically more gifted than you if you are both giving your maximum effort.
Some people should do some light reading on evolution.
Last edited by evnp85; 11-14-2008 at 11:12 AM.
Look at a sport where the kids are 8 years old. 99% of them have never trained in their lives but there is always one that stands out. Thats genetics.
Or better yet, read up on how disease has wiped out entire populations of people but there are always some that survive because of a genetic mutation.
Last edited by evnp85; 11-14-2008 at 11:21 AM.
Waht type of pitchers are the minor league batters facing? 85 MPH fastballs? Maybe 90? What happens when they get a change to hit off a pro or former pro pitcher? 95-100 MPH fastballs, bigger change ups, bigger curves. A rookie has far less experience than a vertan, who more than likely honed his skills WHILE HE WAS IN THE MAJORS. A few get in, some stay, some don't, some are average and a few go on to become great.
Did Barry bonds hit 70 or 80 home runs his rookie year? How about Sosa? McGuire? how many no hitters did nolan Ryan throw in his rookie year? They got better as they got older and had more experience because they continued to work hard on and off the field once they made it. Some will get overlooked no doubt, and some will get there because of genetics (did you read Rhode's post about the NU football player as an example?). Hard work will determine who stays and who becomes great.
Did Michael Jordan get by on his genetics? Or did he get by on his hours and hoursof practice each day? Was he a super star the whole time? Or did he have some not so good years before he became one of the greats (not talking just pro here either, college, highschool if you want).
Since you edited your post, here is my response to the rest of it.
8 year olds... I know ZERO and have heard of ZERO and have read of ZERO 8 year old ELITE athletes. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about, and you know it (that or you are the INCREDIBLY dense one).
And genetic mutation has NOTHING to do with this. I'm not growing extra fingers to increase my deadlift grip, I'm not growing an extra thigh bone to get taller so I can dunk on Yao. We're talking about makign the best with what you have. Plain and simple. I've got a matches for any more strawmen you'd care to set up.
Also, training has just as much of being a factor in 8 year olds as it does in anywhere else.
Kid has been playing/trainign for 1 year.
Better kid has been playing/training for 2 years. The kid with 2 years experience probably will be better as he has been trianing twice as long. Or there could be the kid who is only there becasue his parents want to and he doesn't really care. OR the kid could be a fanatic and practice all day and all night after he gets home from school in his basement or something. OR the kid just could have al lthe determination in the world, but have no coachign and have no idea how to pracitce so he is doing it wrong. None of those have anything to do with genetics unless you want to split hairs and say crap like "the work ethic comes from his genes, therefor its genetics".
Give me a break.
Do have some sort of documentation or something that shows that every human body is genetically exactly muscularly the same?
Some people are bigger, some are shorter. These are very simple difference that are static throughout every human body. Obviously it is possible for person A to genetically have better performing muscles or something very similar.
One would come out on top regardless of no prior training because his body's genetics are superior at whatever it is they are competing in.
Last edited by evnp85; 11-14-2008 at 11:36 AM.
I NEVER said we were all the same.
I NEVER said people were born the same size and strength.
I DID say some people will do better becuase of genetics.
I also DID say (and this is my ENTIRE POINT), JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS 'INFERIOR' GENETICS COMPARED TO SOMEONE ELSE, DO NOT MEAN THEY CANNOT EXCEL AT THEIR SPORT OF CHOICE, GIVEN THEY ARE WILLING TO MAKE SACRIFICES AND COMPLETELY DEDICATE THEMSELVES TO THAT CAUSE.
There you go dense man.
Last edited by evnp85; 11-14-2008 at 11:41 AM.
Yes, I never argued that. I was stating that certain people will have a higher ceiling because of genetics.