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Thread: Properly training for Size & Development

  1. #26
    Small guy depotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depotman View Post
    I think most people make the mistake of trying to lift the weight rather then focuse on exercising the muscle they want to work. Obviously this depends on your goal, and if you are training for strength this doesn't hold as true as opposed to specific muscle developement and hypertrophy, but is still applicable in my opinion.

    For example if it's their "chest day" and they are doing bench presses, they are really focused on putting up a big number weight wise. They want to hit a new PR and when you are trying to hit a PR or are lifting really heavy you are going to be putting more emphasis on getting the weight up over completely working the muscle in question and keeping the load on that muscle wanting worked versus the other 5 or so muscles helping.

    Which might be fine, but if your goal is for developing the muscle in question, then it would serve you better to take weight out of the picture. Forget about hitting that PR, or even what weight you are using. Just focus on making sure you are hitting as many fibers as possible for that muscle (with an appropriate weight), not on whatever other muscles are trying to help you with said lift.

    Obviously if your not into working individual body parts, or you dig complex movements because of time requirements or the "getting more bang for you buck" I imagine this might not be appropriate advice. I still think most people would be better served taking the amount of weight they are lifting out of the picture and just focusing on really working the muscles in question.

    The problem is this goes against what most people are thinking, which is "I have to put more weight on the bar and lift big" and in doing so I think sometimes the muscles they really wanted to work don't get fatigued as well as they should because the work is split up amongst other contributing muscles while trying to put up the "big weight" So all the muscles helping on that lift might get worked, but not nearly on the level of what you would want for maximum growth.

    JMHO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts View Post
    You make a good point here -



    But what do you do when that rep range/weight get's easier? You can't focus more, the weight still needs to go up i.e. you got stronger.
    Obviously you would increase the weight, I apologize if I did not really convey that. I tried briefly (and poorly might I add) when I mentioned "Just focus on making sure you are hitting as many fibers as possible for that muscle (with an appropriate weight), not on whatever other muscles are trying to help you with said lift."

    My point was to not get stuck on what weight you are using, but to focus on working the muscle and adding more weight should be a secondary focus. Once you you are hitting your required reps, or you feel the muscle is not under enough tension then the weight should be upped.

    I am certainly no expert so I apologize if I wasn't making much sense, I just wanted to add my humble opinion to this great discussion.
    Last edited by depotman; 07-22-2010 at 03:50 PM.

  2. #27
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    Stay dedicated to your style of training and it will work for you.

    That's what it really comes down to...
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  3. #28
    Small guy depotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cards View Post
    Stay dedicated to your style of training and it will work for you.

    That's what it really comes down to...
    Agreed, what's important is that you decide what training program is right for you and then follow that to the T.

    Especially if your training is a progression based program like SS, 5x5 (Starr or Madcow),5/3/1, etc. which are focusing more on strength and progressing your lifts heavier. Versus focusing on complete hypertrophy, or specific muscle developement.

    It's important to pick your goals and apply the correct program as best you can.
    Last edited by depotman; 07-22-2010 at 10:44 PM.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by depotman View Post
    Obviously you would increase the weight, I apologize if I did not really convey that. I tried briefly (and poorly might I add) when I mentioned "Just focus on making sure you are hitting as many fibers as possible for that muscle (with an appropriate weight), not on whatever other muscles are trying to help you with said lift."

    My point was to not get stuck on what weight you are using, but to focus on working the muscle and adding more weight should be a secondary focus. Once you you are hitting your required reps, or you feel the muscle is not under enough tension then the weight should be upped.

    I am certainly no expert so I apologize if I wasn't making much sense, I just wanted to add my humble opinion to this great discussion.
    No I was just reiterating your point and making sure that it was clear to anyone reading.

  5. #30
    Determined View 1's Avatar
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    Allen this is kind of just a general question ( again ) but if you took an intermediate lifter and you put them on a hybrid program ( some heavy lifting, some volume in the same workout ) what might a workout look like?
    Success is achieved by doing a little more than you thought you could, and a lot more than anyone else.

  6. #31
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by View 1 View Post
    Allen this is kind of just a general question ( again ) but if you took an intermediate lifter and you put them on a hybrid program ( some heavy lifting, some volume in the same workout ) what might a workout look like?
    I would need a lot more info to actually write a program because there are many variables involved. It also depends on what type of split is used whether it be bodypart or push/pull, etc.....

    Here would be an example of a push/pull split this being the push day:

    1a) BB or DB Incline press 5 x 5
    1b) BB or DB squats 5 x 20, 15, 12, 10, 8

    2a) BB squats 5 x 5
    2b) DB shoulder press 5 x 15, 12, 10, 8, 6-8

    3a) BB or DB shoulder press 5 x 5
    3b) 2 bicep exercises one for 3 sets, one for 2 sets x 8-12

    4a) DB Flat press 5 x 5
    4b) 2 core exersises one for 3 sets, one for 2 sets x 10-15


    I would use a 4 or 5 day split depending on individual. What is done on other days is important as well.

    This is one of many applications.

  7. #32
    Crikey, its a 30 foot ape! Kong's Avatar
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    I'd also be interested in seeing a full hybrid program
    Current 1RM's - Bench 264lbs (Target 308lbs)/Squat 396lbs (Target 352lbs)/
    Deadlift 429lbs (Target 440lbs)
    BIG 3 TOTAL at 220lbs (28% BF) = 1089lbs
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  8. #33
    Senior Member Allen Cress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kong View Post
    I'd also be interested in seeing a full hybrid program
    You guys have to understand that I make a living from this and it wouldn't be fair to my clients to post a full program.

    I may eventually write an article with a full routine in it, but for know I can only answer questions and point you guys in the right direction.

    Hopefully you guys understand.

  9. #34
    Determined View 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Cress View Post
    You guys have to understand that I make a living from this and it wouldn't be fair to my clients to post a full program.

    I may eventually write an article with a full routine in it, but for know I can only answer questions and point you guys in the right direction.

    Hopefully you guys understand.
    Thank you for posting that Allen, I also realize that you do this for a living and was just curious as to your approach to heavier weights based upon your original post.
    Success is achieved by doing a little more than you thought you could, and a lot more than anyone else.

  10. #35
    Small guy depotman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen Cress View Post
    You guys have to understand that I make a living from this and it wouldn't be fair to my clients to post a full program.

    I may eventually write an article with a full routine in it, but for know I can only answer questions and point you guys in the right direction.

    Hopefully you guys understand.
    Sounds fair to me, appreciate what you have shared thus far.
    Last edited by depotman; 07-24-2010 at 04:29 PM.

  11. #36
    Crikey, its a 30 foot ape! Kong's Avatar
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    Understandable.
    Current 1RM's - Bench 264lbs (Target 308lbs)/Squat 396lbs (Target 352lbs)/
    Deadlift 429lbs (Target 440lbs)
    BIG 3 TOTAL at 220lbs (28% BF) = 1089lbs
    6ft 2, 234lb fat, hairy ape!
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    "This stuff will make you a sexual Tyrannosaurus. Just like me!" As said by the great Jesse 'The Body' Ventura

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